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Forums : General Discussion > Book 8 Champion nerfs
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Hasenfuss (Applicant) 5/21/2009 2:17 PM EST : RE: Book 8 Champion nerfs

Hasenfuss
Posts: 34

Hammarstrand said:

Thank You Hasenfuss, for contributing with something constructive to a thread of useless posts by trying to teach me how to tank with a champion.



*whistles innocently* i actually find the thread quite interesting, even although a bit "heated" (which is partly my fault though). I was just refering to my on previous posts lacking any sort of cunstructivity

As for the aggro management... As I said we are quite limited there. "Raging Blades" and "Ferocious Strikes" are what I always used to get aggro. And they both work wonders. When I started a fight I always made sure I was the one to pull/run in, to make sure all mobs are nicely arranged around me, then I fired off raging blades (I usually would use battle frenzy right when I pull to get enough fervour for raging blades). Once that is done I always had aggro secure enough nothing would just break off, and in the next 10 seconds I was basically just building up pips for the next raging blade or ferocious strike if I was tanking a boss. As soon as I got a defeat response I used glorious exchange.

And that's pretty much it... seems very simple, but it has always worked for me. I have to admit though it was always painful whenever I had to pull so quickly in succession that battle frenzy wasn't ready from the last pull to start with raging blades... it was also a royal nightmare to tank in the old SoA content before I got raging blades and ferocious strikes.

Maybe the problem occurs when you hit hard mode instances (haven't done that with nivan myself, since I'm only lvl 56 but it worked up to the forgotten treasury), but I've been in one HM instance with a champion as main tank, and it worked just fine.


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Hrethmund (Member) 5/21/2009 3:45 PM EST : RE: Book 8 Champion nerfs

Hrethmund
Posts: 3388

Actually this is exactly where the discussion should be because who knows someone from the devs might stop by and read it one day 

That said I am going to take my discussion to the dev's forum, something I have never felt impelled to do before

Hey Torvik good to see you are still looking in - we can still find a spot in our ongoing quest to grill the calimari btw - even for a nerfed champion

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Kilrandir (Member) 5/21/2009 3:58 PM EST : RE: Book 8 Champion nerfs

Kilrandir
Posts: 2245

I do enjoy these debates from time to time, even if they do become a bit heated due to our emotional investment in our characters.

I am certainly not qualified to discuss champion mechanics (or any mechanics for that matter as I am more of a "play and experience" rather than "analyse" person) but if you want a healers' perspective on guardians v champions as main tanks then:

A champion can main tank most of the content that I have done to date (which in instance terms is everything bar 16th hall and DD in hard mode), with Baracir for example doing a fine job.  But it makes the healing a lot more difficult and you need to start healing sooner which makes the aggro management more difficult.  The lack of the range of snap aggro taunts also makes the encounter far more hazardous.  In comparison healing a guardian is far easier to manage and prevents me from sweating over the keyboard.  But, do you know what, I love the variety of having both tanking, we have fun, it makes the encounters different, and I get to group with more friends....

On the topic of SOA v Moria, speaking as someone who has organised endless instance runs for varying groups, I don't really see the issues as so extreme as others:

1. I have no problems whatsoever with the design of hard modes of GS, Forges, Fil Gashan and Skumfil.  They have been challenging and more so with a varying group, but ultimately all doable and the sense of satsifaction on getting the boss down is on a par with the Rift raiding.  So the designs are fine for me, being someone who can run instances say twice a week rather than daily. 

2. There is a flaw with 16th as the instance is so long that it is unforgiving for a rotating group to learn the encounter and then repeat say 12 times to equip everyone.  I can say right now that I could not face that.  However, I can live without the full radiance set, and of course the Turtle might drop this item.

3. The Rift is a kinship inclusive raid design and the current hard modes are the opposite, but we have discussed this to death already.  A lot hangs on the Book 8 raid.  If entry requires a full radiance set then I shall be weeping into my beer at the lost opportunities to pick up with friends that to be honest I have barely played regularly with since the Rift, which is a huge loss.  However, I am optimistic that Book 8 will either only require partial radiance items in the early stages of the new raid (say three items) or provide additional mechanisms to get entry level radiance items more easily.

Eternally optimistic.....Kilrandir


Kilrandir - Elf minstrel (85)
     
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Gugnar1 (Member) 6/10/2009 10:04 AM EST : RE: Book 8 Champion nerfs

Gugnar1
Posts: 952

I am outraged, I don’t really know why as I am still trying to get my head round a years worth of changes. But the words ‘Champion’ and ‘nerf’ where put together in the same sentence….my twin axes are being sharpened for the devs as we speak!

Without getting worked up about something I have not had time to look into, I think chopping their hands of is a reasonable way to stop the nerfing. If I decide later that it’s not that bad a change they can still type with their nose, you can’t say fairer than that.

Characters: Gugnar
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csxjgf (Member) 6/10/2009 10:12 AM EST : RE: Book 8 Champion nerfs
csxjgf
Posts: 4627

Gugnar1 said:
Without getting worked up about something I have not had time to look into, I think chopping their hands of is a reasonable way to stop the nerfing. If I decide later that it’s not that bad a change they can still type with their nose, you can’t say fairer than that.


Perfectly reasonable response!

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sarthalion (Applicant) 6/16/2009 1:03 PM EST : RE: Book 8 Champion nerfs

sarthalion
Posts: 78

This has been a thoroughly interesting and informative thread....

I for one have levelled my champion upto 53 now...but have to say probably not very efficiently....I have solo'd most of my career...and therefore its all DPS, fervour stance permanently...I have not used any of my other abilities..

This might make me a bad player, but mainly only due to having no real regular need....I am always happy to learn from my peers....

I suppose, this big change will make much difference to me as I havent experienced tanking in instances
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Germonicus (Applicant) 6/26/2009 11:31 AM EST : RE: Book 8 Champion nerfs

Germonicus
Posts: 142

Have things really changed so much in the 14 - 18 months I've been away?
I know for sure that I could off tank without a whole lot of problem and (depending on the other party members/skill/class etc) could even occasionally be main tank.Main tank wasn't much fun though as we just don't have enough hate holding skills ,no matter what stance I was in and I always felt very guilty and took the blame for the problems that having a champion main tank engendered.

When I was in a nice balanced group the vast,vast majority of the time I found it pretty easy to  avoid taking too much agro.It's dead simple to figure out that you're now under attack by 1 or more mobs and it's time to stand still and defend until the main tank has regained agro.

Agro management has always been my key for playing any team-based MMORPG since learning to play a tank in Final Fantasy XI (still,imho,one of the very best designs for tanks in groups).Maybe I'm just one of those rare breeds who chose a champion expecting it to be a tank and found I enjoyed it more than the LOTRO purpose-designed tanks.

My views obviously count for squat though as there's been a LOT of changes since I played but I'm seriously considering buying the new content and resubscribing to see if I can get myself back into playing.
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Archidor (Applicant) 6/29/2009 11:50 AM EST : RE: Book 8 Champion nerfs

Archidor
Posts: 6

One of the changes over time is that with the combination of virtues, runes, weapon title and gear you can get over 20% additonal melee damage mitigation.
If you combine that with the champions heavy armor there is a solid amount of mitigation without block parry evade.

Examples:
Class item defense bonus scroll: 5%
Innocence virtue: 5%
zeal virtue: 2.5%
discipline virtue: 1.5%
pocket item: 3%
rune on both legendaries: 5%
Sum: 22%

There is also some other gear like shields, or pvp jewelery that gives mitigation.
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