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Bloodrayne2 (SuperAdmin) 6/16/2012 1:17 AM EST : Arena build help
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Bloodrayne2
Posts: 6623

I decided to post my reply to Sneaky's "A little assistence please" thread here.  Reason being I've been asked a couple times lately why I have never posted Ebani, Bloodrites, Blood Spectre or Cinderella's builds.  Also so peeps will better understand why I'm sometimes a bit reluctent to assist sg mates with dueling builds.



Truth is, I needed a break. I was doing builds for lots of peeps for a long time then decided to "assist" in builds by asking that they do a build first, which most everyone does. Otherwise how else do you learn. For a while however, I was asked to do or critique 5-10 builds a week and that was getting difficult. I really do enjoy it though. It was nice when more of you Doomer's started helping too. Also, lately, I've been lucky just to get to log in time wise.

Sher's right that I consider you an advanced builder Sneak and I have always enjoyed your outside the box approach to both selected combos and builds. It's refreshing. I have been accused of building every toon the same which is true in part but I never sacrifice a toon's fun powers just to be uber. I've yet to make a true pvp or arena toon. They all have aoe/cones and are hybrid PVE first toons who can also PVP. It just so happens that a strong PVE toon the way I build them is also decent in PVP. If it were ego guiding me, (Was never a Jordan fan for just that reason), trust me, I'd just make a /regen scrapper, spend 20 bil and then fine tune it to kill everything. Instead I've stayed clear of regens since they have such a huge advantage and instead make more offbeat combos....like you do Sneak. I'll make a regen one of these days, I have 5 of them now from the old days, but for now, I'll wait. Right now I prefer killing them with Blood Spectre. He did recently lose to Novarossa's regen but I ran out of end and detoggled 3 times during the match. It was more of a laugh fest for me freaking out cause when an SR has no defence what else does he have? He got me in sudden death which I wasn't familar with because I had never been in it before or it had been years. I just hadn't played my brute in so long I got my timing all backwards and forgot how to use burnout right. Using burnout correctly on a tier nine power that drains you of end is vital or you'll be with no end. I still want a rematch with Novarossa btw. If you want a good match he has a very strong scrapper.

Now on the topic of helping peeps make toons I know I'll have to duel. To be honest, it's just not fun dueling them then. I know them inside and out, and while it helps me to know just how to kill them then, it also makes it much harder and less fun. It's why I didn't look at Del's stalker build posted. I wanted to duel him first. Most all of the arena vets out there never share their builds. The reason being that how you build it is one vital factor in the match. Just one but an important one. It's like telling your enemy everything you know. No one in RL would do that lol. It's why you don't see my arena pve/pvp hybrids posted but by now if you guys don't know how I build then I give up lol.

I am usually more drawn to beginning Mid's builders to help them out and to builds outside of the usual scrapper/tank/brute arena build because I am bored with those and they've all pretty much been done here on the site. I'm not good with MM or Dom builds because I have little experience with them. I'm not afraid to lose and early on lost plenty. We used to have a very good toon builder who always beat me in arena. He never shared any builds, build help, nor strategies. He didn't wait for you to get ready. He used every possible power he had and wasn't above kiting my melee toons on a blaster. It was all about the win. THe guy was an arena beast. Nothing wrong with that if you want to play with that approach and many vets out there feel the same. Fact is he's why I starting carefully figuring out builds and I'm confident I could beat him today were he still here. No one ever helped me though. I have helped everyone here learn to build, and learn what works in arena at least for me. At some point however, those whom I've beaten need to step up and just take me down. Ren did just than with his tank. It was dam close and the subsequent matches came out different but he did it and I was proud of him. That's to me, how it should be done. He made adjustments over and over and even different toons and got the job done.

Ebani's only loss early on after over 40 wins came via a scrapper with all pvp and purple io's, who dueled me with his claws/regen. He still couldn't kill Ebani so he pulled out a shivan which was like having a rad to help him then so I died. I decided right then to finish the match but would not duel him again nor did I consider it a win on his part. Was I wrong? That's up for debate but fact is, he was well within the rules of fightclub. For me however, I don't pull out incarnates or temp pets or inspirs unless it's been agreed upon before or both have them. I just felt it was dirty but I was naive then. Fightclub is just that. Whatever it takes. For anyone who complains about someone running in the cage, or using hibernate. No it's not pretty. No I don't do it. But in the end, who gets the win is the winner. To each their own on their perception of that win later.

Fact is, I've never felt I needed to help you with your builds Sneaky cause you're so....sneaky. I like dueling you because I never know what I'll run into. I don't want to know. It's what makes it fun. That devices blaster or cor you had was a hoot to duel. Do I mind helping you tweak your new toon? Of course not. I'd be more than glad to. I just think if we will end up dueling with it, then it's to your advantage that I don't know it inside and out and also more fun for both of us. Having said that, if you'd like my input you need but to ask. I have a tankbuster sonic (A Marvel term there btw) and have had for a while now but just don't like using ranged against melee. I know Sonic well and it rocks. I don't like that it has so many aoe/cones or that the damage is less than it could be but if it had more damage, it would be too strong due to the resistence debuffs it offers.

One thing about PVP toons. You have to keep altering what you know and use. My emp/dark used to be a scrapper/brute/stalker killer and did it very well. Today she wouldn't last a mintue. My ill/storm used to be an ever better melee killer and all with travels turned off. He had over 35 wins at level 40 dueling lev 50's and to this day still has normal SO's and hasn't been respec'd since inherent fitness. Most of you have dueled him. Today he's still a strong dueler but a purped out pvp io'd scrapper can kill him now. Every thing has changed and it keeps changing. I'm currently working on a defensive scrapper (Not a regen) who has 2% def. Will he work? No idea. I'm skeptical but I made him to thwart all these new defence killers you guys are making with the FA and Tactics doubled up to hit me. My thought is let them hit me, I just have to kill them first. Can't wait to try her out. It'sa combo no one uses too so maybe there's something the arena vets know that I don't. Or maybe I've hit on a combo/strategy like my emp/dark def and Ill/storm troller that will be very effective. I'm thinking just like you....sneaky.

Oh and Sher, you have dueled BloodSpectre. Remember the match against your dom who drained well and had all the slows? Frankly, imo you build the best arena toons in the sg. Why you haven't killed me yet is probably just dumb luck. You also spend the time to get all the perks on them. You are in fact the one I fear the most.  
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RenFuuma (Member) 6/16/2012 8:50 AM EST : RE: Arena build help
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RenFuuma
Posts: 546

only replying because my name was mentioned
now i am  only responding because apparently even though i beat you, sher is still the best builder? oh ok i see how it is.. >_> will just have to crush sher next. .. ya know >_> if i had any real thought. i'd prolly feel bad for beating down woman in a video game >_>;; good thing i am not one of those people <_<;;

"challenge me like a man and get beat like one" that's my motto and i am sticking to it >)

Truth be told though.I enjoy a good fight more than most think. It's what drives me to keep improving no matter the losses. it's why when i do win against them I usually tend to never forget it. Unless i generally feel that I didn't earn that win.(like them holding back for my sake) that [Bleep!] pisses me off, then i just want to really beat them down for not taking me seriously or at best just ignore them completely for wasting my time. but i suppose that's just me lo.
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RenFuuma (Member) 6/16/2012 9:31 AM EST : RE: Arena build help
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RenFuuma
Posts: 546

by the way sneakey. blood has never made me a build either, i would ask her often and never get anything. yet she would make builds for others. however she dedicated an entire thread to you... way more than i ever got. >_>;;

i guess what i am saying is this. "STOP YO BITCHIN"  muahahahah , seriously though.  we're both just to good at building to ever truly get her to help us man.. i let it go awhile back. i just got tired of asking >_>;

in the end .. she got what she wanted, me to rely on myself..so i have. even if i wasn't to happy about it.. but ehh. it's all good though
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Bloodrayne2 (SuperAdmin) 6/16/2012 4:51 PM EST : RE: Arena build help
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Bloodrayne2
Posts: 6623

RenFuuma said:
only replying because my name was mentioned
now i am  only responding because apparently even though i beat you, sher is still the best builder? oh ok i see how it is.. >_> will just have to crush sher next. .. ya know >_> if i had any real thought. i'd prolly feel bad for beating down woman in a video game >_>;; good thing i am not one of those people <_<;;

"challenge me like a man and get beat like one" that's my motto and i am sticking to it >)

Truth be told though.I enjoy a good fight more than most think. It's what drives me to keep improving no matter the losses. it's why when i do win against them I usually tend to never forget it. Unless i generally feel that I didn't earn that win.(like them holding back for my sake) that [Bleep!] pisses me off, then i just want to really beat them down for not taking me seriously or at best just ignore them completely for wasting my time. but i suppose that's just me lo.


Well the difference is that we I have dueled you both multiple times but you only beat me once, and lost in subsequent matchs with those same two toons of ours, and also kept making a toon to beat just one of mine.  Any toon can be brought down if you focus on that toon only since they all have weaknesses.  It was still a good thing on your part because it made you think about what it would take to achieve your goal and you accomplished that.  Sher on the other hand, always has been a difficult match, and she makes toons I'm not as familiar with using things other than raw damage.  While you and I like melee, she makes Doms, cors, Veats etc who are much trickier to duel imo when we are using a melee.  Also Ren you stand toe to toe while Sher uses mobility more and also usually have incarnates so considering all of that, she's just the hardest person I have to duel.
     
I have to say that I probably won't make a dedicated arena dueler until I start consistently being beat which will of course happen as we get more peeps into it and more of the current ones get better and better.  Until then it's just not neccesary.  Killing 50 billion influence regens with a 3 billion influence non regen is more fun.  I liken it to when I'd do martial arts matches in my youth.  I was a green belt but my sensei would have me put on a black one for tournaments.  Fighting higher belts was more of a challange so I learned more and against lower ones wasn't fair to them.  To duel those more experienced than me helped me grow faster.  Some schools give out black belts in way too little time nowadays so tournaments are probably a mess now. 

In the end, arena matches are so hard to keep fair and balanced.  You have incarnates, temp powers, accolades, of which I rarely have any but that's my fault.  Then you have AT, AT combo's and build selection which is where I focus my energy.  Then there is tactics.  This you pretty much learn by experience but how you use your attack chain is vital.  When you use certain powers is vital.  Even your movement can be vital.  I dueled a regen scrapper (One of you guys) a while back on my stalker and it was pretty even match but waited till the last seconds to use a two power combination that allowed me to get in a last second win.   Has anyone ever dueled a stalker where they seem to have left the match but suddenly appear and kill you?  I love this tactical stuff and it's fun.  So yea, it's just taking advantage of everything you learn or come up with.  I would probably suck in the zones and really need to play in them more.  I just don't like being ganged up on by a team of 8 calling out focus kills on one toon.  That's no match but it's an art in itself t team that way and one Kaz tried to teach the sg a while back.  It's nearly impossible to escape from. Lately I've been yearning to get back into making arena toons who are ranged.  It's been a while and my old pve ones just aren't good enough now with all the new changes I don't think.  Sneaky's Devices against my antiquated rad/psi made me realize that in a hurry.  It was a very even match and very fun but I prefer dominating over barely scrapping out an overall win lol.
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sneakey1 (Member) 6/17/2012 10:52 AM EST : RE: Arena build help

sneakey1
Posts: 732

What I've learned is that I have just as much of an issue with not getting my way,
as Blood has with losing.

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Bloodrayne2 (SuperAdmin) 6/17/2012 2:20 PM EST : RE: Arena build help
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Bloodrayne2
Posts: 6623

sneakey1 said:
What I've learned is that I have just as much of an issue with not getting my way,
as Blood has with losing.


Rofl.  Sigh, ok I'll look at your freaking build.  Give me a day or so buddy.
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sneakey1 (Member) 6/17/2012 7:59 PM EST : RE: Arena build help

sneakey1
Posts: 732

Honestly, I am pretty happy with what I already have at this point.
That was just supposed to be an apology for me being so
stubborn. I have no desire to beat you with your own toon.
What fun would that be?

You brought up my devices toon. You know devices is supposed to suck
because it doesn't have a build up power, and beam rifle is known for
being kinda clunky and slow because it has to build on itself in a way.
What makes that toon work is the fact that devices doesn't require
any clicking, so it allows you time to work the beam rifle more effectively.

I could never find a power set that synergizes with BR, but it turns out
that all you really need is one that can stay out of it's way.

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Bloodrayne2 (SuperAdmin) 6/17/2012 11:30 PM EST : RE: Arena build help
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Bloodrayne2
Posts: 6623

sneakey1 said:
Honestly, I am pretty happy with what I already have at this point.
That was just supposed to be an apology for me being so
stubborn. I have no desire to beat you with your own toon.
What fun would that be?

You brought up my devices toon. You know devices is supposed to suck
because it doesn't have a build up power, and beam rifle is known for
being kinda clunky and slow because it has to build on itself in a way.
What makes that toon work is the fact that devices doesn't require
any clicking, so it allows you time to work the beam rifle more effectively.

I could never find a power set that synergizes with BR, but it turns out
that all you really need is one that can stay out of it's way.


Oh no, I'm doing a build for you now. 
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sneakey1 (Member) 6/18/2012 7:39 PM EST : RE: Arena build help

sneakey1
Posts: 732

Lol. I love you Blood.

Tell you what I'll do since I am pretty happy
with the build I came up with once Ren and Sher
got me properly inspired. I'll make 2, and only beat you up
with the one you didn't make. Then I'll beat everyone else up
with yours. That way you won't feel any conflict of interest,
and can really give it your diabolical best. Hows that sound ?

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RenFuuma (Member) 6/18/2012 8:23 PM EST : RE: Arena build help
Legionnaire

RenFuuma
Posts: 546

sneakey1 said:
Lol. I love you Blood.

Tell you what I'll do since I am pretty happy
with the build I came up with once Ren and Sher
got me properly inspired. I'll make 2, and only beat you up
with the one you didn't make. Then I'll beat everyone else up
with yours. That way you won't feel any conflict of interest,
and can really give it your diabolical best. Hows that sound ?



you... beat me??

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

oh man.. you should do stand-up, that was hilarious.
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