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Forums : The Call to Arms (DLP groups/raids OOC) > School of Raid thread (originally posted by Lanai)
Jystana (Applicant) 3/7/2009 4:09 AM EST : School of Raid thread (originally posted by Lanai)
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I get a lot of questions about why I set up rosters and groups the wayI do. People want to know the method to my madness (and my 133tstratz!), but more importantly how everything comes to work together ina raid force.

The most successful group isn't the group thatraids 40+ hours a week, or that clears every zone from King Drayek toThrone of New Tunaria, or that does it all in the least amount of timeswith the least amount of deaths, or even that has the most phat lewtz. The most successful group is the group that learns to work together efficiently and has fun doing it.

Thus, the School of Raid thread is born.

Hereyou can read about why you're in what group you're in, why the otherclasses around you are in that group also, what your class brings tothe group and raid as a whole, and how one person/class effects 23other people/classes. You'll also learn about other classes and howthey effect you...and who knows? Maybe what you learn here willpersuade what class you roll as your next alt.

This isn't aforum where I tell you what to do or how to play nor where I pretend toknow everything about every class. This thread is intended to beinformational and left wide open for discussion and edits by otherfolks who can remember what the name of all their buffs and spells arewhereas I just remember what the icon looks like and why I like it

Pleaseuse this as a loose guideline and not necessarily The Ultimate Rule asjust as different people have different play styles, so too do raidleaders look for different things in classes, group set ups, andplayers.
This topic was moved from forum Campaigns (DLP raiding forum OOC) to forum The Call to Arms (DLP groups OOC) by Jystana.
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Jystana (Applicant) 3/7/2009 4:10 AM EST : RE: School of Raid thread (originally posted by Lanai)
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Defilers at a Glance

Up until the EoF expansion, lots of peopledidn't even know what a defiler was. In fact, on the official SoEboards, there's a stickied thread on the defiler class forum that's anon-going list of funny stories when grouped with folks without a clueas to what a defiler does.

Defilers are the ‘evil’ version of mystics- a chain-wearinghealer class or ‘shaman’ class. The majority of healing from a defiler comesfrom wards cast on the group to prevent the group from taking damage.Defilers are always a primary healer (as shamans are in general), but also havean amazing amount of versatility as they do decent damage, have a huge amountof debuffing spells, and have extras useful for the utility of a group.However, their main function is buffing, warding, and debuffing.


What does a Defiler bring to a raid?

All numbers are based on Adept III /Master I spells.

Group buffs:

Abhorrent Shroud- Increases physical damageresistance (641) and supplies a replenishing ward (211) against non-physicaldamage.

Malevolent Efflux- Increases Max health of group by281, increases mitigation vs. poison by 812, and increases mitigation vs.disease by 1015.

Rapacity- Increases STR by 75 and max health by 666

Crystallize Spirit- When a death blow is struck, grouphas 30% chance to summon a Crystallized Spirit into the group’s inventory. (Thecrystallized spirit is an AE heal from a one-use orb)


Single target buffs:

Portent- Increases max health of target by 844 andmax power by 421

Tendrils of Horror- Target has an 8% chance todecrease damage per second of target by 37 and decrease attack speed of targetby 26

Dire Invective- On a successful melee attack, targethas a chance to inflict 102 disease damage instantly and every 4 seconds (6triggers) and 70% of enemy’s power consumed will also be drained from theirhealth.

Ritual of Alacrity- (Optional AA buff) Increasesrecast, recovery, and reuse speed by 33% for 30 seconds.

Group Cure:

Noxious/Trauma

Voice of the Ancestors: Dispels 82 levels of hostileStun, Root, Fear, Daze, Stifle, and Mesmerize effects on the group.

Wards/Heals:

Malignant Shroud- Wards target against 1788 points ofdamage

Carrion Bulwark- Wards group against 2928 points ofdamage

Eidolic Ward- (Emergency ward) Wards against 1803points of damage. Has no casting time.

Purulence- (Emergency group ward) Wards against 2198points of damage. Has no casting time.

Spiritual Circle- Summons a limited pet to aid thecaster; casts a constantly recurring 518 point ward in an area of effect for 1minute.

Spirit Avenger- (Death Prevention) If target receivesdamage that would be fatal, a limited pet to aid the target is summoned, targetis warded against 1120 of all damage, and target is healed for 875.

Putrid Balm: (Small Heal) Instantly heals 649-794 ontarget

Sacrificial Deliverance: (Big Heal) Instantly healstarget for 1414-1724

Impious Accretion: (Group Heal) Instantly heals groupfor 1159-1356

Soulward: (Optional AA ward) Sacrifices defiler’scurrent health to 10% of their maximum health. The amouth of health sacrificedis turned into a ward on the target. This has no casting time.

Debuffs:

Abasement: Decreases attack speed by 27 and damageper second by 19.2

Malignancy: Decreases STR, AGI, STA, INT, and WIS by48

Umbral Trap: Decreases damage per second by 16.5

Abhorrent Seal: Decreases STR, AGI, and WIS by 76

Ruinous Anathema: Decreases mit vs. poison/disease by826

Putrefy: Decreases WIS by 126

Fuliginous Dominion: Decreases attack speed by 11.6

Caliginous Corruption: Decreases mit vs. poison/diseaseby 840


That’s great, Laenai, but what does all that mean?

In the main tank group:

The shaman in any main tank group will top the heal parse98% of the time with 24-30% healed zonewide. This is due to the wards that areconstantly running on the main tank and the group. The more damage prevention,the more the tank and his core of healers stay alive. On top of that, take alook at the buffs a defiler has to offer. The defiler has the ability to raisethe main tank’s maximum health pool by nearly 1800 points (more with Master I buffs),increase their resists versus poison/disease by 1023/1226, and also increasetheir attack speed and damage per second. The increase in health means the tankcan take more damage, the increase in noxious mitigation means the tank is lesslikely to take as much damage due to noxious spells and DoTs, and the increasein attack speed and damage per second means that the tank generates a touchmore hate. Ritual of Alacrity is a nice touch as it can be cast on either themain tank so that his taunts recast faster or on another healer so their healsrecast faster. Main tank, main healers, or the group in general getsfeared/stunned/stifled/etc? No problem. Voice of the Ancestors clears thatnasty DoT right up and keeps from jumbling up the hate list.


In the off-tank/main assist group:

Damage prevention is always key here as the off-tank/mainassist doesn’t have quite the healing power of the main tank group. Again, theraising of the maximum power pool, the attack speed/DPS is nothing but a bonusin the group, giving the off-tank a better chance to grab and keep agro and tobe able to take the damage the mob can dish out while tanking. This also puts atrauma/noxious group cure into the OT/MA group.


In the scout group:

Damage prevention and noxious mitigation are the two biggestbonuses a defiler brings to the scout group. In this group more than any other,the resists will be lower, the ability to rip aggro from the tank is higher,and fighting in close quarters for melee DPS increases their chances dramaticallyof taking physical and non-physical AE damage from the mob.


In the mage group:

Again, damage prevention is the major bonus to having adefiler in the mage group. Many a warlock has had their lifespan extended afterpulling aggro from the tank due to a defiler’s wards. Most times, its enough tokeep them standing while they de-aggro or run the mob back to the tank (orboth). Ritual of Alacrity is a big bonus here for mages looking to cast just abit faster.


In a nutshell

A defiler is a damage preventing, healing, physical attack andpoison/disease mitigation debuffing, health pool and poison/disease mitigationbuffing badass. (And I’m not biased just because I play the class, though it helps)

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Jystana (Applicant) 3/7/2009 4:10 AM EST : RE: School of Raid thread (originally posted by Lanai)
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Raid setup: Why Laenai does what she does and what she would love to see as her ultimate raid.

Rightnow, while we're still young and green, our raid setup is more alongthe lines of "Anybody we can get to fill empty spaces." Now, thispreference of ub3r destruction varies by raid leader and most willpreach to have THE ULTIMAT3 S3TUP THAT WILL PWN ALL!!!11oneeleven!

But really, each of them are different.

Lotsof raid setup comes from trial and error, what you have available, whatyou've seen as a raider that's worked, and what you've seen as a raiderthat hasn't worked.

Thus, I present to you *insert drumroll here*

LA3NAI'S ULTIMAT3 S3TUP THAT WILL PWN ALL!!11oneeleven!

Varixx(guardian, really, but Varixx is Laenai's chosen MT, as carefullyhand-selected as the 12 apostles or a fine chianti with her fava beans)
Templar
Defiler
Warden
Coercer
Dirge

Paladin
Mystic
Fury
Brawler
Brigand
Conjuror/Necromancer

Inquisitor
Dirge
Illusionist
Non-bard scout
Non-bard scout
Non-bard scout

Shadowknight
Fury
Troubador
Non-chanter mage
Non-chanter mage
Non-chanter mage


That's great, Laenai, but why?


Why not? Erm...I mean....why not? A raid setup is put together the way it is for 2 important reasons.

1) Pwnability of the mobs
2) Survivability of the raiders

Whatyou have to remember as a raider/grouper is: Every class benefitsanother class in some shape or fashion. This wasn't done on accident,guys. Believe it or not, sometimes there's a method to SoE's madness.

Takethe inquisitor/illusionist/dirge combination in the scout group, forinstance. Scouts, though we all love them, bring a very importantaspect to the raid: Physical DPS. What do they not bring to the raid?Buffs. Scouts are very greedy in the buff department and can only buffthemselves (those selfish bastards), so in order to even up the score,slap some melee friendly buffers in with the scouts. Illusionary Armbrings much glee to a ranger. Ferine Vim loads the pants of scouts asthey apply their poisons. Cacophony of Blades in a group of meleeattackers......need I say more?

Along the vein of buffs, a scoutnot having...well....any, also means that their resists are most likelyin the toilet or on their way to the toilet. Take a peek at aninquisitor's magic/mental resists and take a look at a swashbuckler's.In comparison? A swashbuckler would fry if holy water was applieddirectly to their forehead (even if they aren't a vampire) and theirmental resist means any 4 year old with the puppy dog face would get asoda right before bedtime even if the swashbuckler was the one puttingsaid child to bed. When a raid-wide arcane based stun hits the raid, amelee scout is pretty useless if they're just standing there going"Duuuuh...look at all the pwetty colors..." which is why the inquisitoris behind them, rolling their eyes, and hitting that group cure arcanebecause their arcane resist was high enough to resist it.

No,the inquisitor isn't going to be able to keep a group full of "Must hitthe top of the parse" people alive, but we don't expect them to. Theinquisitor brings to the group several buffs that will increase theirattack speed, their stamina(for more hitpoints), and their mitigationversus arcane (magic/mental) and physical damage along with loads ofother fun things like Divine Recovery...

OMG, Laenai! This isn't a dissertation on the scout group! What about the other groups?!

*coughs* Sorry...

In a nutshell, here are how/why/what the four groups are setup for, plus a line on each class as to why they're there.

Group 1 (MT group):
TheMT group's set up has two main goals: 1) Keep the MT alive and 2) Helpthe MT with hate management. The MT is there to take the brunt of thedamage, getting thrown around rooms like he's a ragdoll. The healersare there for a nice mix of different buffs and to cover raising allresist to increase his chances of survival and...y'know.... heal him.The coercer is there for crowd control, power management, hatemanagement, and just because Diggles throws pickles. The dirge is therefor hate management, buffing, debuffing, rezzing, and minor healing.

Group 2 (Off tank/ Main assist group):
Thisgroup is put together in a number of different ways by a number ofdifferent people. Most times, if they don't fit into the other'standard' groups, they go into the OT/MA group. We like pallys becausethey can MA AND OT at the same time. When/If the MT goes down,switching to the OT should be the FIRST thing every healer in the raiddoes(we don't like healers to rez in raids unless they're rezzinganother healer. That's what necros and dirges are for!) Pallies canalso heal their group and have an awesome ability call cop afeel...erm...lay on hands that totally heals their target.Mystics(ALMOST as cool as defilers) heal, ward, and buff, plus have anifty thing called Bolster that can be cast on the MT from across thegroup. Fury brings much in the way of DPS and can be counted on forsuper-quick heals for their own group AND any other group (like thescouts in the inquisitor group). Brawlers bring the melee DPS, can FDif you-know-what hits the fan, and make wonderful trap-springers inzones with traps. Brigands...for lack of a better term...Pull the mob'spanties down with sick-nasty debuffs like dispatch and rake, leavingthem open to spankings from everyone else. Summoners pass out thosecool hearts/shards, bring some DPS with their pets and short-termbuffs, and have a variety of different utilitarian buffs for theirgroup- including increasing their physical mitigation for conjy's orincreasing their noxious(poison/disease) resists for necromancers.

Group 3 (Scout group):

Wecall group 3 the scout group because...well...we have to put themsomeplace, right? *ducks* The scout group is where we get the bulk ofour physical DPS. The inquisitor is there to help keep them up, butmostly to buff attack speed, keep the scouts from gettingstunned/stifled, and raise their STA(hit points) and physicalmitigation. The illusionist offers power management, increased attackspeed, and extra crowd control. The dirge brings SEVERAL group-widemelee friendly buffs and debuffs to the group, including Cacophony ofBlades. The non-bard scouts are there for one purpose: BEAT. THAT. ASS.and look good doing it.

Group 4 (Mage Group):
Group 4is called the mage group because it sounds cool. Or because group 3 wasthe scout group and they didn't want to be left out. Either way, group4 is here to 'blow shit up' ((c) Urdis, 2007) and the accompanyingfolks in the mage group are there to help them do that exact thing. TheSK is handy for things like Death March, which increases the castingspeed of the group, and is ALSO a caster (mage in a tin can), so theuber intelligence buffs running rampant through group 4 from thegathering of eggheads only helps the SK along on the parse. The fury isthere to help keep the mages up, bring some DPS casting pain of theirown, and to offer Ferine Vim to one very lucky pajama wearing playerwho will enjoy the benefits of increased INT. The troubador bringSEVERAL group-wide, caster-friendly buffs including deaggro to helpwith hate management, and Jester's Cap which will benefit a player someserious recast/reuse speed. The mages....*points to Urdis's copywrittenphrase* and try not to pull aggro by doing it.

ButLaenai, wouldn't it go much faster if you filled EVERY available spotwith some sort of painful DPS instead of filling spaces for utilitypurposes?

Kinda, sorta, not really. You see, while itwould add to Pwnability of the Mobs, it would -seriously- detract fromSurvivability of the raid. While the MT group does its best to help outwith hate management (and all the DPSers should also be doing that ontheir own *eyes*) having one tank with 2 hate helpers vs. 18 DPSersgoing full force to kill a monster means one thing: Dead DPSers. Eventhe best of raid tanks will struggle to stay in the number 1 spot onthe hate list and will repeatedly fail, causing a raid to repeatedlywipe. While DPS is important and the speed by which you kill mobs alsoimportant (the shorter the fight, the better chance your MT will live),you don't want to make the fight short because the mob turned and atethrough 9 mages and 9 scouts before coming back to the MT. Havinglow-DPS people in your raid still contributes to the lowering of themob's health, but more importantly, fills up a spot where a high-DPSperson would go, thus adding to the worldwide problem that is hatemanagement.

Sheesh, Laenai, could you talk anymore?

Probably,but I'll end with this disclaimer: AGAIN a raid setup is different forevery raid leader and every raid group. While this is one -I- wouldlike to see, if you go raid with someone else, you definitely won't seethe same thing. When it comes down to brass tacks, through trial anderror and as we progress through zones, -my- ultimate pwning raid setupwill change and evolve until we find something that is a nice andpersonalized balance for our group and efficiently displays Pwnabilityand Survivability.

Proud Guild leader of Norrathian Legion
Now offering Vision and Dental!
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Euryale (Applicant) 1/5/2010 11:37 PM EST : RE: School of Raid thread (originally posted by Lanai)
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*quietly cheers for the inclusion of dirges in the MT group*
*shifty eyes*
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