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Forums : Feature Discussion > Request for feedback : DKP / Events
Aaron Lewis (Blue Collar) 7/2/2004 3:58 AM EST : Request for feedback : DKP / Events
GuildPortal Dev
Aaron Lewis
Posts: 1978
Zomgawsh Poster

Hey folks!  We're rapidly approaching a long-overdue revamp of the event / DKP system.  I'll write down what we've come up with based upon your requests in the past, then if you have any ideas about what we're proposing or if you have proposals of your own, please post them!

Event Templates

Guilds often go through the same encounters frequently, and don't really think of them in terms of “where” they are, primarily, but “what” they're doing.  For example, an event is more often thought of as “Ikkinz Trials” than “EverQuest: Gates of Discord: Ikkinz.” 

The details of these events are static.  The only thing that changes between occurances is when they happen.  So under the new system, you'll be able to save an event as a template.  Once you've got templates available, when you're creating a new event you'll see a drop-down with all of the templates you have available.  If you select one, all of the details of the event, except for the date/time, will be automatically filled in from what you saved with the template.  This includes the Game Area, the descriptive text you typed in previously, priority, who's invited, and the raid point value, if one was entered.

You'll also be able to edit existing templates.

Event Requests

Often, especially in larger guilds, people can get lost in the mix.  They have needs for flagging and questing that may not be current priorities for the guild as a whole.  Under the new system, members will be able to request events, assign a personal priority, and event admins will see these as essential News Submissions are seen today.  They will be able to approve the event and dictate when it will happen.

This one wasn't so much a feature request as it was something that we've found guilds coming up with systems to do it on their own (forum posts, external scripts, etc).  We hope to make it easier and more integrated by making it part of the service.

Loot

One thing that's kept us from moving forward with loot tracking is that we've had a mindset that somehow it just had to tie in with the guild bank system.  The spiderweb of coding and schema that would be necessary to support this would be nightmarish.  Worse, the guild bank system, with the requirements to enter data in the fields for specific values for attributes like strength, dexterity, etc., ended up being more a pain in the arse than just providing a text area for people to enter whatever they want to.  If there'd been a way to search for items by the values entered in those fields, it might be a different story, but nobody's ever requested it and it never happened.  So, why continue forcing entry of it?

With that in mind, ignoring the bank system in order to support tracking of raid loot is the route we're going to end up taking.  When something drops, part of the event follow-up will be the ability to tell the system about it.  You'll be able to say “Shovel of Paladin Smacking” dropped, and if it's dropped before and the system knows about it, you won't have to do anything more than that.  If this is a first-time drop, you'll be provided the opportunity to tell the system whatever you want to about it.  Up to and including linking an image from something like Lucy or wherever, or just entering the stats yourself. 

At this point, you will be able to specify what the item is generally worth in Raid Points/DKP.

Once saved, instances of drops are tracked.  So when an item drops three raids later, a tie between the description of the item and the instance of the item that dropped on that specific raid is created.  On this instance, you'll be able to track who the item went to, how much they paid for it (if you use Raid Points/DKP), and any additional notes you want to enter.  The Raid Point/DKP value will be auto-filled when entering info about a drop, but you will also be able to edit the value of an item at the level of a drop.  So while the Shovel of Paladin Smacking may generally be worth 20 points, it may have been decided that ShadowKnights should always be able to get the item for 5 points.  You'll be able to edit this at the drop level, without modifying the original raid loot template.

You'll also be able to say that an item was awarded to nobody (say nobody wanted to spend raid points, or nobody wanted it just because it, well, bites).  This will feed the reporting system as well, so you'll be able to see how many items have rotted.

You'll also be able to edit the templates.  So when the next expansion comes out, say, “Shades Of Impishness,” and the Shovel that drops off yard trash mobs makes the last expansion's raid-level drops look pretty pathetic, you can decide that the old Shovel is worth 10 DKP / Raid Points from this point forward. 

Event Follow-Up

The current event follow-up system allows for saving a narrative of the event as a whole.  The new system, bolstered by the raid loot drop tracking, will be able to automatically link items that dropped on the raid, freeing the event admins from having to do double-entry. 

Summary

In all, aside from administration of events, the proposed system opens up the possibility of extensive DKP / Raid Point tracking.  Reports could be made available under a new content type that shows raid point standings and drill-through to see who's won what by either the person (click person's name, see where all their points have been spent), item (click on an item, see who's ever won items of this type and how much it cost them), or event (click on the event name and see all instances of the event, what dropped, etc).

We'd really like to hear what you think of this proposal, and if you have ideas of your own, we'd love to hear those too.  This is the biggest content-level rewrite we'll have done to date, and we want to make sure that we get the most of what everyone wants to see.

Because of the size of the changes, they'll be hitting live in stages.  The first that will be seen will most likely be the Event Templates, and we'll move on from there.
Aaron Lewis, GuildPortal.com
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Harmond (Guild Admin) 7/2/2004 6:43 AM EST : RE: Request for feedback : DKP / Events
Harmond
Posts: 1607
Zomgawsh Poster

name="2916405">

Looks great!  I'm glad to see that event request idea!  I wasn't relishing having to learn a bunch of new code just to implement it, not to mention building another site for that code to live, as I really don't have that kind of mojo working for me.  I only have one suggestion.  It's not clear to me by viewing your 'proposal' whether this will be a rework of, or a new version of the events content type.  Can the “You have a new Event Request” message not be in the same place as the news submissions?  I'd much rather be able to approve/reject/modify event requests by viewing such a message in the events content type itself.  Either that or an e-mail notification when a new event has been  requested.



 
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536885761_Inactive (New Admin) 7/2/2004 9:02 AM EST : RE: Request for feedback : DKP / Events
536885761_Inactive
Posts: 3977
Zomgawsh Poster

Arathel had a nice requirements document she wrote for me on a DKP system... I'll see if I can find it and post it here. Some of what's in there might be helpful to look at when approaching this project.
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536885761_Inactive (New Admin) 7/2/2004 9:14 AM EST : RE: Request for feedback : DKP / Events
536885761_Inactive
Posts: 3977
Zomgawsh Poster

Aaron, I sent you e-mail with more info on this, since it wasn't a public post.

BTW, I love the template idea.
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Daeaorn (New Admin) 7/2/2004 9:50 AM EST : RE: Request for feedback : DKP / Events

Daeaorn
Posts: 2150
Zomgawsh Poster

for the Events i would liek to beable to click on some1s name on my Raid Attendance page and beable to see what evetns they have mised. so that if it was a misstake and i dont have to go around searching threw all my events to find out which one they  didnt get the points for.
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Arleon (Guild Admin) 7/3/2004 6:08 PM EST : RE: Request for feedback : DKP / Events

Arleon
Posts: 410
Fingers of Fury!

name="2924633">

The way that we do raid points is based on attendance. We don't really care about “events“ per se. The attendance feeds into a ratio, which I will explain below....

We have all raid hours attended per person per day. This is tracked every raid, at 15 minute intervals by an officer, and then totalled and uploaded at the end of the raid. It's not based on events because we raid as many places/mobs as we can in any given day.

So, for a month, we will have something like 8500 player hours (60 people * 6 hours * 24 days), and 300 dropped loots (hopefully, 2.something per raid hour). We don't actually do monthly boundaries, it's cumulative at present, but we plan on having a rolling 4 or 6 month window.. Also, I am making this example easier by counting each loot value as 1.00, whereas some loots have value of 0.10 and some have 2.00 - which could go higher as we break into new areas.

Back to the ratio...

In the above example the total hours to loot ratio is 28 (8500/300). Anyone having a personal ratio below this number has gotten more than their share of loot and probably won't get any for a while, and anyone above this number needs some loot.

For a person, the ratio is then their own hours divided by how many loots they have had. So, if someone raided 144 hours, and got 5 loots, then their ratio would be approx. 28, which is where they should be. If they got 2 loots, then the ratio would be 72, and they are going to get preference on the next loot they want.

It would be wonderful if we could upload daily attendance as a csv file or similar file format, keyed off player names. Which could then be reported on a cumulative, monthly, or daily basis, and tie into a report of ratios.

And of course, we would want all the same loot tracking that you have outlined above.

We should have a report online soon that more clearly illustrates what I mean, and I will post a link to it when it's up...

Hunter Arleon
Garden Stalker of Tholuxe Paells
Through The Never
"I am the would behind the arrow..."
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Daeaorn (New Admin) 7/3/2004 8:51 PM EST : RE: Request for feedback : DKP / Events

Daeaorn
Posts: 2150
Zomgawsh Poster

on my site i use the dragon point standing thing and it tells u the # missed/signedup for and if its saying they missed a raid rather then have to search all my raids i can click on there name and it will say something like

Raid History for Daeaorn
Kaeasora 5/7 unattended
PoValor 5/20 attended 6 DP's awarded
The Hole 6/1 attended 6 DP's awarded
Lake of Ill Omen 6/10 unattended

something liek that would make it easy fpor me to go back and if i did make an error thats an easy fix because i can go to Kaeasora for 5/7 and go to Daeaorn and fix it. Thats what i would liek to see. Becasue a few of my members are marked as unattended events and i have to search all my events to find out the ones they signed up for let alone missed and a few times i  have missed thee name or i forgot to do a follow up on a raid but it took me forever to find it.
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Arleon (Guild Admin) 7/12/2004 8:29 PM EST : RE: Request for feedback : DKP / Events

Arleon
Posts: 410
Fingers of Fury!


We should have a report online soon that more clearly illustrates what I mean, and I will post a link to it when it's up...


We now have the report on the site. It's pretty cool with inline detail loop popup and another moveable popup comparison window. You are going to have to use your uber access to see it atm, as it is member level+. We may lower the access to general in the future, but for now we want to keep the info private..

It's the tab [Attendance]
Hunter Arleon
Garden Stalker of Tholuxe Paells
Through The Never
"I am the would behind the arrow..."
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Deleted User (New Admin) 7/13/2004 9:39 AM EST : RE: Request for feedback : DKP / Events

Deleted User
Posts: 0


We should have a report online soon that more clearly illustrates what I mean, and I will post a link to it when it's up...


We now have the report on the site. It's pretty cool with inline detail loop popup and another moveable popup comparison window. You are going to have to use your uber access to see it atm, as it is member level+. We may lower the access to general in the future, but for now we want to keep the info private..

It's the tab [Attendance]


So has the Event Follow up changes been implemented for the EQ2 portal?  I don't see any of this functionality on my site.  It's hard to tell whats supposed to be working and what isn't without a upgrade shedule or change log or release notes.
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Daeaorn (New Admin) 10/22/2004 11:30 AM EST : RE: Request for feedback : DKP / Events

Daeaorn
Posts: 2150
Zomgawsh Poster

name="3828983">

I know how its currently done but for higher end guild this does nothing since the DKP and raids are not usually announced that is why i'd like to see what my other post says

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